menemsha 24 sailboat

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Talman Menemsha 24

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• Sailboat Guide

1970 Talma Menemsha 24

• Description

Seller's Description

Classic Herreshoff style lines, in good shape with a lot of work done: sails are in good shape; good standing and running rigging; new aluminum centerboard; new teak cockpit floor. Needs topcoat and topsides woodwork varnish; in sailing condition

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

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We apologize, this listing sold not too long ago

1971 Talman Yacht Menemsha 24

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Sailboat - 1971 Menemsha 24

• Price: Contact seller
• Condition: Used
• Make: Menemsha
• Type: Cruiser
• Location: Kansas City, Missouri, United States

Description

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Sailboat - 1971 Menemsha 24

• Make: Menemsha
• Condition: Used

Seller notes

"Tyche" is a beautiful 1971 Bob Baker design sailboat and one of only 26 built between the years 1970 and 74 by the Tallman Boat Company of Bristol, Massachusetts. Inspired by the Friendship Sloops indigenous to the northeast, the Menemsha 24 is a serious blue water boat that spent the first 31 years of her life sailing the waters of Buzzard's Bay and Martha's Vineyard. In 2004 she was sold and transferred to Chicago where she sailed for 2 seasons then put on the hard. I purchased her in the sum...

• Specifications
• Location: 641** , Kansas City, Missouri

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BYYB Forums

• BYYB Forums > Forums > Builders Bulletin Board >

Have you ever seen a Menemsha 24 ?

Post Jul 04, 2008 #1 2008-07-04T12:22+00:00

Post Jul 04, 2008 #2 2008-07-04T16:06+00:00

Post Jul 04, 2008 #3 2008-07-04T18:39+00:00

Post Jul 04, 2008 #4 2008-07-04T20:20+00:00

Post Jul 05, 2008 #5 2008-07-05T03:49+00:00

Post Jan 20, 2010 #6 2010-01-20T21:51+00:00

Post Aug 12, 2012 #7 2012-08-12T14:17+00:00

Post Aug 12, 2012 #8 2012-08-12T22:02+00:00

Post Aug 13, 2012 #9 2012-08-13T01:10+00:00

Post Aug 13, 2012 #10 2012-08-13T03:49+00:00

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Discussion of market for small sailboats referencing Talman Menemsha 24 and Katama 25

Discussion in ' Sailboats ' started by Stephen Ditmore , Nov 18, 2012 .

Waterwitch Senior Member

Off the top of my head builders of fiberglass traditional boats of that size include. Cape Cod Ship Builders, Classic Boat Shop, and Marshall Marine, as far as potential competition goes. Plenty of wooden boat builders who work in that size range too, if your potential customer wanted a real wooden boat. I built a Bob Baker designed 20 ft sloop, his boats are pretty sweet looking.  

michael pierzga Senior Member

Stephen Ditmore said: ↑ Thanks Tad and Michael. That doesn't leave me rushing to take delivery of these molds (I do have some other ideas I want to pursue). But if Tad's right about the beam I don't consider the idea completely off the table. To be frank I think it would take someone who sees this thread being enthusiastic about the boat and contacting me. Do you think trailer-sailors in general are going out of style in favor of small, car-top-able boats? Do you think a high-end buyer who's trading down is interested in combining sail and power (some form of motorsailer) or interested in paddle sports or rowing? What sort of vehicle does a wealthy European use to tow a 30' trailerable? Is a high-end buyer who's trading down is inclined to go multihull? Click to expand...

Dryfeet Junior Member

Trailerable is over rated unless it can be towed behind today's small cars and hybrids. The Katama/Menemsha is a pretty boat but way too heavy to reasonably be considered trailerable (unless it's once in the spring and once in the fall). You'll be hard pressed to produce it for $125k and even 150k. Very small market. Even a Stuart Knockabout, (an open 28' daysailer) runs $85k plus these days. Go light weight. Go fuel efficient. Use modern technology and design. Btw, How do you make a million bucks in the Marine business? Start with 2 (or 3) million.... Get out before it's gone!  

Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

Before you burst a blood vessel take a look at my post #2.  

Doood. Sounds to me like I was reinforcing that and giving good reasons. No bursting going on here. Follow your dreams, laddy!  

Sorry for the snark. My point is I'm OK with light & modern if that's what the market's looking for. Is it?  

Chenier Junior Member

I looked at a decent Menemsha recently. The purchase price would have probably been about $5k by the time we got through. The primary reason I might have gone that high was the boat's low-hours Yanmar, which had some real value. As noted in the original post, one of the main appeals was the relative trailerability. The width really is the advertised 8 feet, and the skeg keel is manageable for trailering. The keel is also ideal for its namesake sailing venue (the name adds a bit to the cache in these parts, of course, though that may not be so much appreciated outside New England, and in any event may be a separate issue, as I'll get to). The ‘problem’ is the Menemsha's weight, at 6,000 pounds (3,000 in the keel) is too much for any of my current trailers or my current tow vehicle. The main reason for my considering this at all is price-for-the-size boat and engine. It would be difficult to envision buying one of these new under any circumstances. To have that kind of demand, a boat type has to have two elements -- and even that may not be enough, as many well-regarded builders of well-regarded boats have learned: 1. A strong class association 2. Active and competitive racing (especially important for generating new-boat demand) Looking at other ‘classic’ racing classes that are still building – Marshall for a good example, or maybe the resilient Beetle Cats – those two factors are key drivers. Competitive sailors want fast boats and don’t mind paying up to be competitive (nice, competitive versions of the small Beetle Cat will often command a higher sale price than a pristine Menemsha). The paradox for the industry is that I’d be willing to pay more even for a new Laser -- which I would use exclusively as a race boat -- than I would for a Menemsha. For competitive racing, the seemingly small differences matter and sailors will pay up for new boats (and even still, with continued Olympic status, Laser’s US builder is now seriously struggling - it's tough out there!). If I were going to spring for a new trailerable ‘classic , I might consider a Marshall 18 (Sanderling) which weighs in at 2,200 – which is within the range of my trailers and vehicle – but which more importantly is a strong class with active racing. The Sanderling's $38k price tag might give me pause, but if I were really into that class I might rationalize it. If I was looking for something in the Menemsha’s size and displacement range for local cruising use, shallow draft, and decent accommodations, I might look at a Marshall 22 (available also with some attractive rig alternatives) which in sloop rig has a classic look and much friendlier accommodations than the Menemsha. But even with that, at the Marshall's $80k new price there are some other wonderful used boats. I'm probably rambling - these are simply a couple of examples out of many - but the point is that to rationalize new construction, you need the demand of an active and competitive class. If you were looking to revive and build a classic in that size and price general category, you might look at something along the lines of a Cape Dory 25D (but not the Cape Dory 25 of course) – not really trailerable but a well-regarded and still sought-after boat. The cost-to-build to original specs might be prohibitive, but that's true with all of these. If you were going to build and market Menemsha’s you might also remember that it appears you are getting the molds only and not the brand name. We see that the original builder (not Chase) is still selling just the plans for the Menemsha that anyone can pick up and build if they want. You would possibly still have to acquire the brand if you were going to market this. If anyone was into really into it, they might end-run your efforts. If you didn't also get the brand rights, you might have an uphill marketing battle. Anyway, just some thoughts. Before jumping into something like this, I’d join a class that I loved and appreciated and if anything maybe revive some class that has an enthusiastic following. Some classic boats are truly missed, but even so their builders couldn't make a living building them. If you can find one and do better, good luck. I would use current resale as a tell-tale for current consumer demand for any model or type. But before I went too far with the Menemsha, I would work up an estimate of cost-to-construct. That would be particularly interesting for this thread, so if you would like to share those projections at some point that would be educational, and appreciated.  

Having also grown up in Massachusetts I'm certainly familiar with the Cape Dory, but to me the Menemsha/Katama looks like something out of Chapelle, while the Cape Dory doesn't. Since my inclination at the moment is to back away from building this boat I probably never will work up a detailed estimate, but my feeling is that if the molds are usable the cost could be kept under 6 figures. I think you've hit the nail on the head that any market discussion involves looking at what motivates people to sail and what's going to get them excited enough to meet the cost. What sort of boat could get you to ditch your Laser were a fleet forming in your area? Are you like me, Chenier, potentially interested in everything from Atlantic Class to A-Cats? I prefer a development classes to one-design, with handicap racing somewhere between. I like seeing different designs compete.  

salglesser Junior Member

Hi Stephen, We recently began a new boat company. We began with the designer in 2009. Proto tested in 2010. First production boat in the summer of 2011. We're making a 17' high tech "Pocket Cruiser". Sage Marine.com Sharpii2 had some good advice about trailer sailors. Small Craft Advisor is THE magazine for small craft. They do a good job. The SCAMP was created by Small Craft Advisor. There is currently a company tooling up for fiberglass production. (Gig Harbor) As far as the trailer sailor market, there is a sailing event in Arizona in February called the "Havasu Pocket Cruiser Convention", put on by Sean Mulligan. Great event for the genre. Already almost 200 boats signed up of many marques. A visit during the show would offer much information about the trailer sailboats and the market. Building sailboats is a labor of love. Not for making big money unless you're Macgregor or Catalina. sal  

tunnels Previous Member

salglesser said: ↑ Hi Stephen, We recently began a new boat company. We began with the designer in 2009. Proto tested in 2010. First production boat in the summer of 2011. We're making a 17' high tech "Pocket Cruiser". Sage Marine.com Sharpii2 had some good advice about trailer sailors. Small Craft Advisor is THE magazine for small craft. They do a good job. The SCAMP was created by Small Craft Advisor. There is currently a company tooling up for fiberglass production. (Gig Harbor) As far as the trailer sailor market, there is a sailing event in Arizona in February called the "Havasu Pocket Cruiser Convention", put on by Sean Mulligan. Great event for the genre. Already almost 200 boats signed up of many marques. A visit during the show would offer much information about the trailer sailboats and the market. Building sailboats is a labor of love. Not for making big money unless you're Macgregor or Catalina. sal Click to expand...

Hi Tunnels, Thanx for the offer. I just got back from China Monday. I travel there regularly. We thought about production in China, we make other products there, but decided against it at this time. We're laying up the boats in Colorado and it's just a small production facility. Lot of carbon fiber in the layup. At this time, I question whether the market is large enough for high production. It's a very specialized niche design. Do you build boats? sal  

Thanks, Sal ! I may want to contact you and learn more about your experience sometime, if you're willing. I'm leaning toward starting with kits and beginning with canoes, then perhaps kayaks, with the labor of love being trimaran sailing versions. CLC is the big player in the kit game these days, of course. I like the stuff Chris Ostlind is doing, and PAR . But I'm one who tends to think if what I'm doing isn't a little different it's not worth doing, so hopefully my designs will distinguish themselves, and perhaps I can help others do panel expansions along the way or become the go-to guy for some other specific thing. My avitar is a launch I sketched a while back to have a wake-cancelling semi-displacement hull. Now I see some designs like it. But it seems most powerboat buyers want a high top-end speed, so even if they're not going that fast most of the time you're forced to design for it. Perhaps powerboats are an area where I'll continue to hang back for now, but it gets me a little when I see something and think "I was sketching that a decade ago!" I'm probably not the only one to have that reaction to the "Working Class Wing" article in the new issue of Professional Boat Builder, but I gotta give the Johnston brothers credit for making it happen. And they claim to have had the initial idea quite a while back, so if the article has the timeline right I can't claim to have been ahead of them. Despite my tinge of envy I'd really like to do a boat with their rig. I just looked at your website. For some reason I was thinking I was going to see a 17' powerboat. Now that I see it and re-read your post, it should have been clear to me. If you should want to expand your line I'd be happy to trade some sketches and see if there's a meeting of the minds. I'm also curious to know what you're working on, Tunnels . We have to find a market before we can fill it - but that's what this thread is all about. I'm wondering if the Korean market might grow - what sort of boat might a Korean buy? [My 18 year old daughter will be visiting Korea with her Korean boyfriend next month.]  

salglesser said: ↑ Hi Tunnels, Thanx for the offer. I just got back from China Monday. I travel there regularly. We thought about production in China, we make other products there, but decided against it at this time. We're laying up the boats in Colorado and it's just a small production facility. Lot of carbon fiber in the layup. At this time, I question whether the market is large enough for high production. It's a very specialized niche design. Do you build boats? sal Click to expand...

Stephen Ditmore said: ↑ Thanks, Sal ! I may want to contact you and learn more about your experience sometime, if you're willing. I'm leaning toward starting with kits and beginning with canoes, then perhaps kayaks, with the labor of love being trimaran sailing versions. CLC is the big player in the kit game these days, of course. I like the stuff Chris Ostlind is doing, and PAR . But I'm one who tends to think if what I'm doing isn't a little different it's not worth doing, so hopefully my designs will distinguish themselves, and perhaps I can help others do panel expansions along the way or become the go-to guy for some other specific thing. My avitar is a launch I sketched a while back to have a wake-cancelling semi-displacement hull. Now I see some designs like it. But it seems most powerboat buyers want a high top-end speed, so even if they're not going that fast most of the time you're forced to design for it. Perhaps powerboats are an area where I'll continue to hang back for now, but it gets me a little when I see something and think "I was sketching that a decade ago!" I'm probably not the only one to have that reaction to the "Working Class Wing" article in the new issue of Professional Boat Builder, but I gotta give the Johnston brothers credit for making it happen. And they claim to have had the initial idea quite a while back, so if the article has the timeline right I can't claim to have been ahead of them. Despite my tinge of envy I'd really like to do a boat with their rig. I just looked at your website. For some reason I was thinking I was going to see a 17' powerboat. Now that I see it and re-read your post, it should have been clear to me. If you should want to expand your line I'd be happy to trade some sketches and see if there's a meeting of the minds. I'm also curious to know what you're working on, Tunnels . We have to find a market before we can fill it - but that's what this thread is all about. I'm wondering if the Korean market might grow - what sort of boat might a Korean buy? [My 18 year old daughter will be visiting Korea with her Korean boyfriend next month.] Click to expand...

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michael pierzga said: ↑ Normally the high end downsize type is 65 or 70 years old !!!!! with bad knees and a need to go pee pee way to often Im sure each has his own particular need in a boat. Ive got a client now that is 84. He has owned many boats...racing yachts, cruisers and has hundreds of thousands of sailing miles. When I walk down the dock with him talking about shipyard work or the latest Yard bill , his eyes wander to small motorboats. No more crew, no more hassle, just jump in, twist the key and enjoy the day. A small...25 to 30 ft ...highly detailed motorboat is a winner. By highly detailed Im mean user friendly for old people. Easy to get off , easy to get on after a swim, proper ergonomics, a proper head shower arrangement, a big ship like wheelhouse and nav station to hang out in, quite so that you can tell sea stories while underway, thrifty with a long fuel range so that you dont have to fight at the fuel dock on saturday morning and most important ....good looking, distintive lines..... so that when you wave at your mates in their 100 footers they recognize you. Too many times I see motorboats with nicely drawn lines, but when I look closely the designer has fallen short and detailed the boat for THE MASSES. All things for all people. Huge interior, sleeps six, with a cabin house the comes to the shear and no side deck, making fore and aft movement on deck impossible for old timers. I would be a good design addition to your portfolio...the senior yachtsmans day cruiser motorboat. Not too big, not too small. Click to expand...

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Menemsha 24 1978 boats for sale & yachts.

1978 Menemsha 24 (US$12,000) boat is one of the classical models.There is enough space inside that makes this boat a very good alternative for families for comfortable cruise. Boat’s many parts were repaired or renewed. Overall, it is in very good condition and also clean. It is equipped well and ready for cruise.

Menemsha 24 1978 Boats Review and Specs

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A beautiful New England day sailor, Seven Bells is in great shape but needs a new owner.

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Sailboat - 1971 Menemsha 24

1971 menemsha 24.

• Price: Contact seller
• Condition: Used
• Make: Menemsha
• Type: Cruiser
• Location: Kansas City, Missouri, United States

Description

• Bass Tracker
• Boston Whaler
• Carver Boats
• Champion Boats
• Chris Craft
• Correct Craft
• Cruisers Yachts
• Grady White
• Hydra-Sports
• Mastercraft
• Other makes
• Sleek Craft
• Sun Tracker