hc33t sailboat

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Kachina33' Hans Christian HC33 1985

This vessel is no longer on the market.

OWNERS COMMENTS

Purchased for her blue water performance and durability. Kachina is a strong and sturdy vessel able to cross oceans. Speed is not her specialty but safety and security her strengths. We have yet to bury the rails under the strongest of winds.  

We purchased Kachina in July 2012. She is a classic Harwood Ives designed double ender sailboat, with full keel. She was kept in Deltaville Marina, Deltaville, VA, and the first two summers we sailed her in the Chesapeake. We Purchased new Ullman sails in 2014 along with running rigging. 

She was on the hard during winter months in Deltaville. During the summer of 2014 we spent getting Kachina ready to cruise; Installed a D400 wind generator with custom stainless pole. New ProNautic 1260P charger along with new DC wiring. Installed new CPT auto pilot. Installed Iridium communications system. Raymarine electronics, depth sounder, wind indicator, speedometer. Two coats interior varnish in main salon, pullman berth & head. Exterior varnish on Hatches, granny bars and the companion. Semco sealer on exterior teak rails, cockpit blocks. Took Kachina down intercoastal to FL and spent winter sailing in south Florida waters. Hauled and stored in Indiantown Marina for summer months. Jan 2015 new dinghy purchased. 2015 readied kachina for sail to Bahamas where we spent winter the months in the Exumas and Abacos returning to Florida and hauled in Indiantown.

Summer of 2016, we spent getting ready to sail to the Bahamas onward to Panama. New aluminum bronze exterior chainplates were fabricated along with new standing rigging. Mast was pulled and painted. New bottom paint. New pullman berth mattress. New salon cushions and sunbrella covers. New isothermal refrigerator unit.

We sailed to Bahamas early 2017 onward to Jamaica, Isla Providencia and arrived in Bocas June 2017. Kachina has remained in the water, at the dock in summer months and we have returned to enjoy sailing the archipelago during the winter months.

2019 4 new trojan batteries installed.

While we have owned her, we have not endured any physical damage. The winter of 2014 new bobstay and dolphin strikers were replaced along with chain plate. 

Overall, Kachina is a beauty. She is perfect for single handed sailor or couple. Space allows limited entertaining, but her sailing is grand. She does not have the “modern” conveniences of some of the newer vessels but offers many other amenities especially for the discriminating sailor.

Please contact for full inventory and details.

Specifications

• Price USD: $ 89,500

Hans Christian

• LOA: 33 ft in
• Display Length: 33 ft
• Water Capacity: --
• Fuel Capacity: --
• Days on Market: INQUIRE

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Great post... Most of these boats are slow for their waterlines and, for me at least, speed is a factor in safe passagemaking due to the ability to avoid and dodge weather. I want the ability to easily make 7+ knots in all conditions. (I don't take this as a compromise to seakeeping.) One quirk of the HC33: The teak decks were fastened from the bottom up (e.g. through the deck) and the heads were then glassed over. (Not joking.) The tips of the screws pricking your feet is the first clue your decks need replacing. From my dock neighbors entire summer (3 full days per week) this is a truly massive problem to fix and delayed their cruising dream by a year.

timone - Great comments, thanks! I agree, there's a definate choice to make between speed and tank-like toughness. My personal preference for bluewater is a a heavy full keeler, though this may change with experience. Maybe I'm too wrapped up in the asthetics of these classic designs. Good tip on the HC33. I'm leary of teak decks on any boat due to maintenance issues and would prefer any of the above boats without teak decks.

You are on to something with these large dispacement boats. power or sail . they are the best

Semi-bunk. We sailed a Cal 40 all over the SoPac; not the ideal cruiser but certainly seaworthy. Most of our class of 2008 were fin keel, and some form of spade rudder. With the exception of the Valiant and the Tayana, most of these clunkers are better suited to the dock.

Our family sailed the East Coast and Caribbean for two years and I loved our Lord Nelson's teak decks. The teak is first to dry after the morning dew. A small leak disappeared as it swelled in the warm humid tropical weather.

To me to "dodge weather" when you are in the mid of an ocean has little meaning, unless you have a really fast boast like those racers who do the Volvo ocean race. If you are short handed a slow boat will give you a better chance to rest during a storm, which is paramount for safety, while the fast one will wear you out.

A massive...and very expensive problem to fix.

Even ocean racers get caught at sea in bad weather and more the a few have capsized and demasted. No sail boat can outrun the weather. Even motor yachts with huge Diesel engines that can motor at 20-30knots get caught at seas in bad weather. And many times sailing away from shore and weathering the storm at sea is safer then trying to enter a harbor once the blow is there. Many inlets are risky when the current and winds create breaking waves that can swamp a small craft or force it on to the rocky shore attempting to enter. There are times going further away from shore is safer then attempting entry into the harbor. Having a boat that will ride out a storm safely is worth losing a few knots on passage.

Great list! Not sure the HC33 meets your $50k criteria though. I have yet to see it under $75k in decent condition.

Hahn - True enough, finding a HC33t for $50k is a difficult proposition. But the boat is s so beautiful and so well made that I had to include it, even if finding a good one may mean spending $25k more.

Yes the Baba 30 would fit the Boat Porn listing ! I'll tell my wife that's what I'm doing as I sit with blurry vision @ 2am ! Looking at Porn !!

Agreed, the Baba 30 is really beauty. The canoe stern is perfectly in proportion with the rest of the boat and makes for a really sweet profile.

Our good friend has a HC33 and we have a W32. Its amazing how close they are in sailing ability. I think the W32 tracks a tad better and the HC33 is just a hint more nimble, but they are very close in our limited experience. We really love the HC33's pullman berth in the center of the boat but at the same time we don't enjoy the forward head nor do we like the table layout on the HC33 which requires a lot of people to get up if the person furthest in the booth needs to get out. Its a toss up between the HC33 and W32 about interior layout overall. We love the little quarter berth "room" in the HC33 but at the same time you sacrifice a lot of space in the engine room. The W32 gives you a lot better access to the motor. If push came to shove, I'd take the HC33's extra berth instead of the berth in the center of the W32 factory layout. The cockpits are very close in size (read:small). The HC33 has a rounded cabin top that makes sitting on the edges of it more of a pain, but the W32 requires drop boards or water will run into the cockpit. The W32 does win in price competition though. No comparison there. Just wanted to add some thoughts to your post.

Great comments, thanks for sharing Tate. It's always good to hear from someone who has hands-on, side-by-side comparison experience. I agree the forward head on the HC33 isn't ideal, but I do like that it has a stall shower. If price isn't an issue, maybe the real way to decide between the W32 and the HC33 is the size of the crew. The W32 might be the choice for 2, while the HC33 might be better for 3-4 based on having two private sleeping quarters.

Downeaster 32' is a clear contender here, and also wins as most beautiful ;-D and very stable. Also possibly the largest interior per length? Great head room.

Agreed, the Downeaster is a real looker and a lot of boat for 32 feet, particularly given their value pricing on the used market.

I owned a Downeast32. Roomy yes,slow?, yes! Very slow. Had 7 people on her for an overnighter. Storage everywhere. Lots of rear deck space.

I wouldn't say the Downeaster 32 is merely a contender, but possibly an outright winner in the category of "Affordable Bluewater Sailboats",.. ,much more so in fact than 10 boats mentioned in this article,.. at least from the prices I've seen. I honestly don't understand why something like HC33 even gets a mention,.. beautiful? definitely!!!,.. but affordable??!!,, hmm,. not so much.

Fair enough. I included the HC33 because it's one of my all time favorites and the definition of "affordable" is subjective. As I've defined it here, ~$50k. Yes, that's a stretch for the HC33, but I've seen a few approaching that price point. As for the DE32, she's a capable beauty too.

No mention of the Nor'Sea 27.... Should be on the list for sure. :)

I didn't include the Nor'Sea 27 here, but it is in my list of favorite pocket cruisers to take you anywhere .

Hello, I appropriate your reviews. Our family own CSY-33. Now a day, sailing is a completely new sport for me and I wasn't sure what to expect but I've definitely got the bug. thanks all, @Nadia Brightman :)

Glad to hear you're enjoying your CSY 33!

My wife is 5'9" and I 6'3". Which of these wonderful boats would have sufficient headroom and a nice sleeping double for a couple like us?

This is a great post. I just restored a little Hunter 25 and plan to sell it to get something bigger. It's nice to dream! I second the comment about the Downeaster. I love double enders and clipper bows. How about a Bayfield!

Thanks Dan. I like Bayfields (and other Ted Gozzard designs) too, but they're outside my top 10. Thanks for reading.

Bluewater Offshore Cruising Sailboat Bluewater Cruiser New French-built cruiser with a distinctly American look. Here’s an interesting design from Group Finot for Beneteau. I find interesting the fact that this design is not especially “Euro” in its styling. In fact, it’s sort of American looking and good looking too. So, let’s examine this profile in detail. The transom is traditionally raked as opposed to reversed. This eliminates the standard swim step we see so often. But Beneteau has countered this with a drop-down platform that extends about a foot beyond the transom. This platform is raised and lowered by block and tackle. A sliding flush-deck hatch covers the steps when they are not in use. This is an elaborate and very well thought out transom detail that will allow you to bring your dinghy up next to the boat without threatening the gelcoat on the transom edge. This traditionally raked transom really drives the look of this boat. It certainly affects the character of the sheer. I would have liked to see a bolder sweep to this sheer, but it’s fine as is. Note how the tip of the transom is at the waterline. This, combined with the short bow overhang, produces a long sailing length. I think the designers have done a good job of blending the deck structures with the hull. The D/L of this design is 183. L/B is 3.38, making this a moderately beamy boat on the lighter side of medium displacement if we choose 200 to be the middle of current D/Ls for cruising boats. The keel is a bulbed fin giving 5 feet, 11 inches of draft. Note the deep forefoot on this design and the straight line to the canoe body profile. All in all this is a handsome and moderate hull. The interior shows a two-head, two-stateroom layout with the galley in the passageway to the aft cabin. The galley is spread out fore and aft, but it looks to me like there is still plenty of working room. The aft cabin has a large double berth and symmetrically arranged lockers and settees. Why settees? Well, they look good and occupy volume that is not much good for anything else due to the shape of the hull. There is a head with shower stall adjoining the aft cabin. The saloon has a dinette, which to my eye looks on the minimal side. I suppose you could seat four for dinner if you had to, but it would be a tight squeeze. The forward stateroom has a double berth with the toe end cut away to make room for the forward head. I’m not sure how this berth would work for a couple. Obviously, the biggest advantage to center-cockpit boats is the separation of the sleeping accommodations. There is space below the cockpit for the engine room. Putting the cockpit in the middle of the boat allows the designer to place the mainsheet traveler at the end of the boom and place the traveler where it will not interfere with the cockpit layout. This rig is well forward and shows swept spreaders with forward lower shrouds. Unfortunately, the sailplan we have is not carefully drafted so it doesn’t do much for the look of the boat. The photos also show a staysail. This is a very nice looking boat. The windshield is fixed and, while obtrusive in the drawing, looks just fine in the photos. I’m not too keen on the wheel position. It is a bulkhead-mounted wheel offset to starboard, much like we see on cruising catamarans. This means you will sit in one position at the wheel without the benefit of being able to turn 90 degrees or change sides. This wheel arrangement does free up the rest of the cockpit and puts the helmsman securely under the dodger. A teak-capped bulwark adds a rich look to the deck. Beneteau’s boats always deserve a close look. The company obviously puts a lot of market research into its new models. In this case the company has given us a well-designed boat with some unusual features. This is one boat I’ll definitely board Beneteau Wave Rider 42CC at Annapolis.

I wonder if the keel will stay attached

I've saled from the Med to Australia on my own Beneteau Oceanis 42cc and plan to continue the circumnavigation via cape Town to the Caribbean in April 2015. We love our Bene layout... Fun to sail . The center cockpit is Ideal. The aft deck spacious and the aft cabin just wonderful. A huge engine room accommodates all our gear.water maker. Genset. Tools....

Hey, I think a strong case could be made for Bayfield 32 cutters, beautiful boats and pretty bullet proof as well. speed is a bit of an issue! great post!

I single-handed a Bruce Roberts 31 (schooner-rigged) across the Atlantic and back . I was 70 yrs.old, the boat did the work. Also, list the Dreadnought 32 (Tahiti ketch in heavy fg).

I'm intrigued by many of the Roberts designs and metal boats in general, but I don't have any experience with either. The Dreadnought is another really cool and unique double-ender with a lot of character...often available for a bargain price. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah how about some feedback on the Alberg's. They seem worthy & affordable too. Please respond, thx. L

My first true-love in sailboats was the Pearson Triton 28, of course designed by Carl Alberg. As my experience and taste evolved, I began to prefer canoe sterns and slightly more modern designs. The biggest fault I can find with Alberg designs is that many seem to have very narrow beams, making them tight for family cruising. The narrow beams can also contribute to a tender boat. However, Alberg did a fine job of making his designs very sexy with swoopy sheerlines and long overhangs. The Triton, 35 and 37 are all capable and proven offshore boats.

The HC33 shown, Sabbatical. is for sale @ $95,000. Ouch.

Agreed, that's a steep price. I've seen 2 33t's that needed a little TLC sell near $50k. In general, the HC 33t probably has the highest average price of any in my list, but its' such a sweet ride!

You forgot the Allied Seawind 32 for $25,000

Good call! The Seawind II (32') is but one of several Gillmer designs worthy of any "best affordable bluewater cruisers" list. Others include the Southern Cross 28/31/35, Weatherly 32, Aries 32 and Roughwater 32. Perhaps it's time I write a sequel to this post to include the many good recommendations from the comments. Note - I did include the Southern Cross 28 in my post called "Bluewater on a Budget: 5 Budget Cruisers for Crossing Oceans."

there is one you may have over looked! tanzer 10.5 pilot house! not the fastest but with it's swing keel it is a fun wide nice sailing boat!! and great for the island's

I like the Tanzer 10.5, but is she bluewater capable? Definitely a unique look, in a good way. And Tanzer has a good reputation for affordable quality and decent sailing performance.

This is almost the identical boat to a Southerly 10.5 which has made many ocean crossings. Definitely bluewater capable. I own hull # 11 built in 1983 and she has sailed completely around the world spending a lot of time in the South Pacific. She has a righting angle of 140 degrees with the lifting keel up. The hull to deck joint is glassed over on the inside during production resulting in a absolutely solid boat with no joint leaks. The amount of storage is phenomenal for those long passages. I have had her out in 50 knots with no issues. The self tending jib makes single handing easy, and with the keel down to 6.5 feet she handles well.

Could an old Irwin 37 MK I be upgraded so she can be blue water capable? If so...HOW?

I suppose anything COULD be upgraded to bluewater capable, but at what cost? The I37 is known for it's roominess and affordability, but not necessarily offshore capability or robust construction. Irwin's can be fine boats (I owned one for 5 years), but they would not be my choice for bluewater. If you're simply considering passage from Florida to the Bahamas, or some island hopping in the Caribbean, then there are plenty of Irwin's with that under their belt, but an ocean crossing or a run to Bermuda in an I37 should be carefully considered. For more info and specifics about the I37, try Jack Horner's review here: http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/sail/Irwin37.asp

What about the Irwin 42 Ketch? Is it what you would consider blue water worthy?

What, no mention of the Bill Garden designed Fast Passage 39?

Love the Fast Passage 39 and Garden's original s/v Bolero! Thanks for the addition.

Aah there I am trying hard to decide which one to choose........except I couldn't afford even a model version! So I content myself by saying that at nearly 60 and with no experience wòrth talking about I'm way to old to start now. Youtube and some of the wonderful sailing videos help a bit!

Tashiba 31 is heavy duty double ender good for ocean crossings don't you think? I like the cutaway forefoot.

One of Bob Perry's personal favorite designs, or at least he thinks highly of it. It's also one of his last full keel designs. “I think the Tashiba 31 and 36 mark the best boats I ever designed with modified full keels. The boats were fast, close-winded, stiff, and well balanced. I constantly got calls from owners telling me how they had “beat” a local contemporary design.” (from Yacht Design According to Perry).

Why no mention of the Cabo Rico 34?

James - The Cabo Rico 34 is certainly worthy of this list. In fact, so is the Tiburon 36, the first boat built by Cabo Rico and perhaps a bit more affordable than the 34. The Tiburon is a Crealock design and eventually became the CR 38. Thanks for the addition!

Another good boat is the Gulf 32. Solid build, good tankage, though at this age the 75 gal fuel tank needs serious inspection. William Garden feels it is one of his finest, safest designs!

A boat that is not so well known in European and N.American circles is the Oswald Berckemeyer designed Miura 32.Built strong to cope with South African waters it has been said (though I am not sure how true) that more circumnavigations have been carried out in Miura's than any other class of boat.I owned a Corrida which is the 36foot version of the boat (also designed by Berckemeyer) and I took this boat across the Atlantic without a worry. Strong and fast - I loved that boat.

Hi Mike. I am trying to find drawings, specs and photos of the Corrida 36. Very little available online. Can you point me to anything you are aware of? Thanks.

Did any one mention a DownEast 32? They may be fat and slow, but so is the WestSail 32. Any one agree / dissagree?

Hey I did a post at Urban Nomads about your excellent blog. Check it out here: http://urban-nomads.net/great-boat-living-websites. Thanks for the helpful tips!

The Southern Cross 31 / 35 / 39 really should be on this list. Excellent heavy displacement boats that will take you anywhere.

Agreed. I'm a fan of Southern Cross sailboats and Gilmer designs.

What is your position on an Island Packet 320?

I've never sailed a 320, but I do like IP's in general for their salty style, solid construction and seaworthiness. I particularly like the 320's rig - a cutter is nice for having headsail options and the Hoyt staysail boom keeps things simple. IP's tend to command an upper tier price and aren't known for speed, but if you can get beyond those two factors, the 320 looks to be a nice size and layout for a cruiser.

I love your list. Mine would be very similar, but might include the Endeavour 37. It's hard to beat the price!

I sailed our HC 33 from Alaska to New Zealand on a 5-year cruise. We loved how she handled in heavy weather. We are in the 50+knot "club" and our HC did great while other cruisers suffered dearly. While she isn't fast, she tracked well, and behaved at anchor or hove to. Yes, the teak deck is something to consider, but overall, not a deal breaker in the big picture of off-shore cruising. We sold our HC in New Zealand because I had to return to work. I miss her every day. I am plotting to get another bluewater boat. At this point my short list is another HC or perhaps an Island Packet or Pacific Seacraft. If I were rich, it would be a Najad. These choices are based on our years sailing with other cruisers. While boats are so incredibly expensive, the bottom line is safety at sea, getting parts in exotic locations, and the cost of repairs. The better you are equipped before leaving home port, the less likely you are to have life-threatening problems or serious repairs in expensive locations.

You missed Acapulco 40, so likely never read "One Wave at a Time" by Ed Atkin - regards, Matt

Thanks for the kind word for the Fugi 35. Here's one you can have for under $50k. Needs a little work but is a great boat. miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/d/classicblue-water-passage/6479457885.html

I don't see Corbin 39

Thank you for the article it has given me information on my up coming purchase I'm working towards living aboard my own sailboat as I travel the East Coast, Caribbean, South America and West Coast in my retirement years.

I understand this is US based but as a Brit I used to covet the Tradewind 35, a proper long keel, flush decked, cutter rig, blue water cruiser. If money was no object that is the boat for me.

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• Hans Christian

Hans Christian 33T for sale in St George's, Grenada

CLARKE & CARTER YACHT BROKERS

St George's, Grenada

Make & Model

Hans Christian 33T

MEASUREMENTS

Description.

Engine Count

Engine Horse Power

Engine Location

Engine Tankage

Propeller Type

3 Blade, Bronze

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Harwood Ives

Hull Material

Hans Christian Yachts

Displacement(kgs)

ABOUT HANS CHRISTIAN 33T

The Hans Christian 33T is 33 feet long that boasts a 11 feet beam. This 1985 diesel Hans Christian 33T with 39 horsepower. The Hans Christian 33T is made of fiberglass.

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Sailing Vessel Prism

Sailing around the world one anchorage at a time., 3 weeks of madness to buy our hans christian 33t.

• U-shape dinette
• U-shape galley
• aft state room
• stall shower
• master berth was not a v-berth
• encapsulated keel
• less heel the better (yea yea…. I know and I call my self a sailor)
• good engine access aka NOT in cabin sole

Then the sorting happened, to go though all the stuff that we had and all the stuff that the boat came with, well it took about 4 hours. 

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10 thoughts on “ 3 weeks of madness to buy our Hans Christian 33t! ”

“Prism” looks like a beautiful boat – perfect for two beautiful people. The world is yours … enjoy! Your friends, Joseph & Marci s/v “Horizon”.

Great pictures and story you guys! Have fun!!! Klick (Gweynn)

Hey Shannon and Jon – we met you in Port Angeles and in Neah Bay – when you invited the whole harbour to a party. Where are you now, and how is it going. Enchante is in Eureka and heading south first weather window. Marida is already there. Reed, Alan and Lindy

Blog for Enchante is alindyrosen.wordpress.com…. heading for Frisco, San Diego, La Paz with the Baja ha ha Reed, rearly at telus.net

Hello Jon and Shannon, Great to meet you at the boat the other day as you were finishing applying one of many Cetol coats. Love the blog and the boat! In just 3 days of research the HC33 has become a top contender. I will be having a look at a 1984 HC33 this weekend in Sausalito. Here's the link: http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Hans-Christian-33t/143623381#.UuhpofuIZki Perhaps we could talk more about the merits of the HC33T. If you are up for it, drop me a line or give me a call. Many thanks, Michael s/v Alma, Berkeley [email protected] 707-486-7498

Michael it was great to meet you the other day. You had perfect timing as we finished the first coat. We have put 2 more coats on but then the rain yesterday made up stop, we are hoping to get the first coat of gloss on tomorrow. We would love to talk more about the HC33 with you. Jon will send you an email. This weekend we are heading inland to see some family. But when we get back feel free to come by the boat any time. cheers, Shannon

Thank you Klick!!

Thank you!! We sure do miss you two! Hopefully we can see each other soon!

Enjoy your adventures 🙂 Looking forward to follow you

you 3 have have wonderful on-screen personalities

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How to Handle the Head

The Day Sailor’s First-Aid Kit

Choosing and Securing Seat Cushions

How to Select Crew for a Passage or Delivery

Re-sealing the Seams on Waterproof Fabrics

Waxing and Polishing Your Boat

Reducing Engine Room Noise

Tricks and Tips to Forming Do-it-yourself Rigging Terminals

Marine Toilet Maintenance Tips

Learning to Live with Plastic Boat Bits

• Sailboat Reviews

Hans Christian 34/36

In many ways this blue-water cruiser represents the best and worst of taiwan boatbuilding- heavy but maintenance-intensive construction..

The story of the Hans Christian 34 and 36, and their successors, is a microcosm of the history of the Taiwan/U.S. boatbuilding industry. That is to say, a mixture of good designs, fine hand craftsmanship, knockoff gear, occasional shoddy finish and detail work, double-dealing and broken promises. Sometimes out of the mix comes a well-built, good-sailing blue water cruiser like the Hans Christian 34.

The Designer(s) and Builder(s)

Hans Christian Yachts got its start 24 years ago when a former Long Beach, California high school teacher named John Edwards approached naval architect Robert Perry about a plan to build quality yachts economically on the island of Taiwan. It wasnt an original thought; the Formosa Boat Building Co. in Taipei and Cheoy Lee in Hong Kong had been at it since the 1950s. Edwards and Perry had collaborated on an earlier Taiwan-built boat, the CT 54. For Edwards, Perry came up with plans for the hull, keel and rig for what would become the HC 34.

Before the first 34 was built, Perry says he was informed that Hans Christian had blown up his design to a 36-footer but that, no, he wouldnt be getting any royalties. Thus ended, for a time. Perrys role with the design, although the company continued to credit (or exploit) his name in connection with the 36.

Under Edwards Taiwan arrangement, he owned the designs and controlled the distributorship. An outfit called Union oversaw construction, and the yard basically owned the tooling. House designer for subsequent designs such as the 33 and the 41, was listed as Harwood S. Ives of Cruising Design in Winterport, Maine (Perry says hes tried unsuccessfully to track down Woody Ives, has found no one who knows him and tends to doubt his existence. Hans Christians new president, Jerry Finefrock, who took over this year, says he understands that Ives is English, but that he hasn’t been able to locate him either.)

Finefrock, a lawyer who concedes his knowledge of the firms earlier history is somewhat incomplete, says that through some sort of Chinese chicanery someone took the HC 36 molds and began building the Union 36. He said a lawsuit, filed by Edwards after Union lightened the scan’tlings and reverted to the Hans Christian name, ended the chicanery. Perry, who meanwhile had retaliated by designing the Tayana 37, disagrees with that version. He suspects that Edwards somehow alienated the yard, which owned the molds, much as he had with the earlier project, the CT 54.

Later, the Union people asked Perry to lend his name to the 36 in return for royalties. He agreed to a compromise in which the yard could claim the boat was based on a hull by Bob Perry, which was true to the extent it was a knockoff of his 34. When the company continued to claim it as his design, he disassociated himself and the royalties stopped.

In the middle of all this, a Union employee asked Perry at a meeting in Taipei to redesign the 36s keel, paid for the job with a personal check, then took the design and began building his own boat at the Mao Ta yard. The 36, ultimately more successful than the 34 in sales, popped up as the Mariner Polaris 36 and EO 36. None did as well as the Tayana 37, however, of which 570 eventually were made.

Hans Christian went on to create a number of successful models (John Edwards has a good eye for a boat, Perry concedes), eventually parting ways with the Hansa yard, which had taken on the line land presumably dropping German-built from its advertising claims, claims that made a lot of people believe the boats were built in a little Bavarian village high in the Taiwan Alps). The boats then were built at several other Taiwan yards before relocating, in 1989, to Thailand. Edwards then faded from the scene (Hes out of the business, Finefrock said) and the new ownership took over early in 1993 from Edwards former partner, Geoffrey White. Hans Christian now consists of two distributorships, one headed by Finefrock in Annapolis, another in Europe, and a new plant in Bangsaray, Thailand. Finefrock said the factory has air-conditioned lay-up facilities, a new quality control program directed by Michael Kaufman of Annapolis, and is certified to build to ABS standards.

Gone from production, the president said, are the 33 and 38; the 33T (traditional) is suspended, the 38T has been idle since 1990, and the 38 MK II is dead and buried. The 43T, out of production since 1989, will be reactivated, while the 43 Christina, part of Hans Christians updated Euro line, will continue. The 40 Christina is gone, but a new version of the 48T will be made. Plans are in the works for a 60-footer. In all, there are some 1,100 Hans Christians sailing the oceans of the world, including the 34 and 36.

Dont ask Hans Christian for the plans or any data, however; all was lost when the company relocated from California to Annapolis.?You can, however, call Perry (Robert Perry Yacht

Designers, 6400 Seaview Ave. N.W., Seattle, WA 98107; 206/789-7212), who feels a connection to Hans Christian owners, even if he didnt design all their boats. His consultation fee of $250 entitles per- sons to ongoing access and consultation, drawings and any technical backup you need.

As designed by Perry, with a little help from Edwards/ Ives, the Hans Christian 34/36 is a heavy, double-ended, cutter-rigged cruising yacht designed specifically for ocean sailing. Like others of its kind, its often described as a traditional North Sea double-ender, although the tradition exists mostly in the imaginations of builders and owners rather than with any vessels that actually existed. They are exaggerated caricatures of old boats, says Perry. Nevertheless the 34/36 has pleasing lines that draw admiring glances. And it was boats like this that helped Taiwan expand its boatbuilding industry during the 1960s and 70s.

The boat is typical Taiwan in other ways-solid construction (it displaces 18,300 pounds), its real teak decks and all-wood interior. The craftsmanship is excellent and affordable only because native carpenters were paid a tenth of what their U.S. counterparts earned. All this weight, of course, tends to make it a poor light-air sailer.

The 34/36 has a low chin bow, a short canoe stern, a long flat run aft and a fairly straight deadrise in the mid-section over a V-bottom, similar to Perrys U.S.- built Valiant 40. Perry said he began rounding his hulls for boats like the Tayana 37 and FD 35 before realizing hed gotten it right the first time. Thats a hull shape I went back to as time went on.

The hull is solid (and thick) hand-laid fiberglass. The deck is 5/8″ teak planks over a sandwich of 3/8″ glass, 3/4″ plywood, and another 3/8″ glass layer. The cabin top is cored with 1/2″ plywood. Although the deck bungs are bound to loosen with time (this is a boat that requires lots of maintenance) we saw no evidence of deck delamination in the 1978 model we inspected. The hull-deck joint is glassed over on the inside and appears to be through-bolted as well. Solid bulwarks allow the lifeline stanchions to be mounted vertically for better strength than those through-bolted to the deck. Interestingly, the nuts are embedded in the glass, a practice used elsewhere on the boat. (Hans Christian, incidentally, in the future will drop the thick glass and wood-cored hulls in favor of lighter Divinycell foam-cored hulls.)

The solid bronze traveler is definitely heavy-duty, although its position well forward on the boom makes sheeting difficult (photos of other 34s show boom-end sheeting). The bronze, like the wooden blocks, is part of the traditional aesthetic. Despite the overbuilt nature of the boat, little flaws here and there can create problems. On the 34 we sailed out of Newport in the summer of 1993, the Rosalie, a worker had failed to drill a weep hole in the port stanchion of the boom gallows. The result was a persistent leak over the galley that took the owner many hours to track down and remedy. And theres occasional mismatching of metals-in one case we saw stainless steel screws inserted into a bronze fitting.

Another complaint was a squared-off leading edge on the 7,000-pound full keel, described by the owner as looking like a cheese wedge. Perry says that probably was his fault as a relative newcomer, who neglected to give precise enough instruction to the yard that built the keel. The best solution, he said, is to reshape the leading edge with foam and fiberglass.

Accommodations

This is a good-sized boat with commodious, if less than perfect, storage and space below. The galley, to port at the foot of the companionway stairs, is small, with a two-burner stove, ice chest for cold storage and limited counter space.

Rosalies owner, Frank Girardi, cut a door into the compartment under the sink to convert otherwise dead space to storage. To starboard aft is a quarter berth that the owner says is his favorite sleeping berth. Theres also a generous chart table, positioned and sized for the dedicated navigator.

In the saloon is a settee berth to starboard and to port a U-shaped dinette; theres plenty of stowage behind and under seats. Six opening bronze ports, oval in size, and a large rod-reinforced skylight introduce lots of light to the main living area. A second, smaller hatch and several more ports forward provide natural light for the head and V-berths.

This is a deep boat with a big bilge, good access to the systems including the engine, and lots of tank- age; the original boat came with two stainless steel water tanks under the main salon and a smaller one forward. A previous owner removed the saloon tanks and replaced them with a single fiberglass unit that holds 150 gallons-sufficient for almost any trip. Girardi installed filters between tank and head and galley for better-tasting water.

Other alterations made (and worth checking on any boat) included replacing an (illegal) T-joint in a propane line behind the dinette, leading to a LPG water heater, and replacing a gate valve in the head with a Wilcox-Crittenden seacock. The owner also cut another door under the head sink for better access to seacocks. A check of all the seacocks, which may or may not be cheap knockoffs, is a good idea.

Performance

At 18,000-plus pounds and with a 5′ 6″ full keel (with cheese wedge up front), this is not your ideal light-air cruiser, despite its three sails (main, Yankee and staysail) and total sail area of 676 square feet. In fact, it requires a good 15 knots to get up and go at anywhere near its hull speed. We were doing 5.6 knots close-hauled, relatively-speaking, in 13-15 knots and small Narragansett Bay waves. The owner has reached a top speed of 11 knots (while surfing in a following sea) and recorded a high of 9 knots on the return of this years Bermuda One-Two race. For the record, the only PHRF data for the 34 and 36 we could find, one boat each, was 204 and 186 respectively.

Despite Hans Christians one-time claim that the 34/36 has a genuine appetite to go to weather in a drifter or a blow. this boat is best on a reach. The highest youre likely to get to point is 45 degrees; we tacked through an even 90 degrees on our outing. A bigger jib should help the boats overall performance, according to comments Practical Sailor has received. In fact, Perry recommends sailing with a genoa and without the staysail to maximize light- air performance. Sailed as a sloop, he says the 34s performance compares favorably to other boars of this genre.

While hardly the boat for a drifter, its definitely a good boat to be on during a blow. Owners report that it rises exceptionally well to the steepest of waves. High-sided with big bulwarks, it may not be the aerodynamic ideal, but it is dry and safe. The cockpit, surrounded by teak staving, is comfortable in size and configuration, but small enough to be safe at sea and with adequate drainage. The bulwarks make going forward feel quite safe.

Although OSTAR and BOC veteran Francis Stokes calls a cutter sail plan the best for ocean sailing, it can be difficult to learn to trim. Perry agrees that the clutter rig is the most difficult for the beginner to master, noting that an over-trimmed staysail acts like a parking brake. We experienced some backwinding of the mainsail by the staysail tin part because its foot was too long for the club and had quite a hook in it) and felt occasional weather helm. Part of the problem may have been the extreme forward location of the mainsheet traveler, which made trimming difficult; a dodger also interfered with cranking the winch a full turn.?The boat itself balances well; the owner reports that his Monitor wind vane works well in most conditions. On the wind, he was able to simply lock the wheel and sit back and relax while the boat held its course.

Heeling was not excessive at 15-17 degrees in 15- knot winds. Reefing should not be necessary until well into 20 knots of wind; easing the mainsheet will buy some extra time without suffering undue consequences.

Hans Christians came powered with a variety of engines. Two 34s we know of, one with an Isuzu 40, the other with a 3-cylinder, 35-hp. Volvo, got about the same results in speed-about 6 or so knots at 1,800 rpm. Rosalies performance under power improved (for a time) to about 8 knots with a three-bladed propeller, but fell off during the season, possibly because of bottom fouling. The owner had switched from his two-blade because it thumped when passing behind the deadwood; fairing the aperture would help this condition.

While not a good boat for the weekend coastal cruiser, or for anyone who does much sailing in light-to-moderate air, this is an excellent choice for the serious blue-water sailor. This is a boat that will take you offshore to Bermuda or just about anywhere and will stand up to a gale. The 34/36 wont get you there fast, but it will get you there safely.

The teak decks and wood interior are attractive, but carry with them the burden of constant upkeep. This is a good-looking boat, particularly to those who like the traditional canoe stern and all the trimmings. And you can probably pick one up in the $50,000-$55,000 range.

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• Sailboat Guide

1982 Hans Christian 33T

• Description

Seller's Description

This Hans Christian 33 is a classic blue water passage maker and is without a doubt the biggest 33 ft sailboat made. The interior is as spacious as many 40 ft boats and includes a queen-size pulman berth and a separate shower, often not found on much larger vessels, making it an ideal live aboard cruiser. Hans Christian build quality is legendary. From the interior joinery to the hull layup, Hans Christian yachts are some of the most reliable and highest quality yachts in the world. Having recently returned from a voyage involving two Atlantic Ocean crossings, Grace is up for sale and ready to be cruised anywhere you’re willing to take her.

Equipment: Engine Yanmar 3GM30F - Rebuilt 2016 Kanzaki Gear Box/Transmission installed 2019

Rigging Standing Rigging 5/16 1x19 Sta-Lok 2016 All running rigging replaced within the last 18 months Dodger -2019 Sail Cradle (stackpack) 2019 Monitor Self Steering Wind Vane - serviced with replacement parts 2019 (best crew member on the boat…doesn’t eat, sleep, or whine. It just keeps steering)

Electronics 400 Amp Hour House Battery Bank ProMariner ProSport 3 Bank Battery Charger Two 140 Solar Panels mounted aft with MPPT Charge Controller Garmin Chart Plotter 742xs with all US, Bahamas, Europe, Canaries, and Caribbean charts Garmin Radar GMR 18 HD R EPIRB 406MHz Global Fix V4 model 2831 registration current

All Electrical replaced 2016-2017 New Blue Sea Systems Panels and sub-panels VHF Standard Horizon GX2200 with AIS/GPS

Ground Tackle 55 lb Lewmar Delta anchor (oversized) 35 lb Bruce anchor 20 lb Danforth Mantus chain swivel 170’ of 3/8 chain 300’ of 5/8 rode

Galley Seaward Hillerange LP Stove/Oven with LP Gas Control System in galley Dometic Adler/Barbour Cold Machine and Evaporator - 2018 (makes ice in the tropics!) Whale Gusher Foot Pump at Galley Sink from 60 gal freshwater tank Airhead Composting Toilet Three 12V fans

Life Raft Elliot 4 person 2020

Spares: The old Kanzaki gearbox/transmission for parts Spare Starter for Yanmar 3gm30F Hundreds of feet of Extra Line Too many spares and parts to name

Removed teak decks 2018

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

From BlueWaterBoats.org :

Designed by Harwood Ives and introduced in 1980, the Hans Christian 33 is the smallest in the family of sturdy double-enders offered by Hans Christian Yachts. Like all boats from the Hans Christian line of that era, the HC33 is a heavy displacement double-ender, solid and seaworthy. She oozes the traditional feel with extensive use of teak inside and out.

At first glance you’ll notice the springy sheerline, large bowsprit and a cutter rig that’s become a favorite among blue water aficionados. Overhangs are quite moderate making for a long LWL for her size and a good hull speed. Below the waterline is a full keel with an aggressively shaped forefoot cutaway and a large rudder that’s hung at the very aft extremity of the boat. Compared to previous Hans Christian boats, the turn of the bilge has been tightened up and the HC33 carries more shoulder in the underwater sections which has resulted in more form stability (righting effort).

She was one of the more innovative boats at her introduction with an internal layout that utilized every nook and cranny that even today has yet to be surpassed. Ives, having designed the previous 38T , 38MkII and 43 moved the interior furniture outwards closer to the hull. The galley was located below the deck and molded fiberglass tankage (both water and fuel) was located in the keel cavity for stability.

What separates the HC33 from the larger boats in the Hans Christian line is her exceptional ease of handling, we’ve heard of a 90 year old skipper who sailed from San Francisco to Turkey with only one crew in tow. Given this and the massive amounts of cruising gear the HC33 can swallow, as much as the HC38 and even the HC41 , it’s believable to hear of older owners offering straight swaps of their larger Hans Christian model for the HC33.

Under sail, she’s seakindly without the tendency to bounce or bob over waves and owners report hoving-to in relatively high comfort when the going gets rough. Fully laden at over 25,000 lbs in typical cruising trim there can be no expectation for fast passages yet the HC33 can perform well, you can expect easy 125 mile days in the trades and we’ve heard of a 7 knot overall average from Mexico to San Francisco via Haiwaii. On the lighter end of the wind spectrum, when Yachting Monthly took a factory fresh model for a boat test in flat water and 5 knots of true, they reported slipping along at 3 knots managing to tack through 95 degrees of angle and making 4.4 knots on a reach with 8 knots of wind.

The HC33 was commissioned by Hans Christian Yachts founder John Edwards around 1979 to replace the Hans Christian 34 and her unauthorized stretched sibling, the 36. Various disagreements over the two boats, not only with designer Bob Perry (who did not receive royalties for the bootleg 36 stretch) but also the Union boatyard that owned the molds meant a new 33 would be the easiest path out of strife for Edwards.

By then, Edwards had engaged a new designer, Harwood Ives, described as creative with an uncanny eye for lines, and shared Edwards’ love of traditional boats. Having designed the 38T, 38MkII, and the 43T in the direction set by Perry, the HC33 became Ives’ most technical design challenge to date, resulting in many clever innovations which helped set the course for many boats in what has been described as the “Golden Age” of Taiwanese boatbuilding. For Ives’ work on the Hans Christian boats, it’s interesting to note his payment was his own HC33 from the factory.

The first boats were built at Hansa Yachts Und Shifbau, a new yard located in Taiwan with state of the art facilities. The yard itself was built by former Hans Christian employee Herbert Guttler (a German engineer noted for his genius as a boatbuilder) and his Taiwanese wife, Susan. Hansa continued construction from 1980 through to 1987, the year Hans Christian Yachts ownership passed to its new owner Geoffrey White. Shin Fa Industries, a boatyard located in Taipei, Taiwan took over production in 1988 and these boats, although good, never match the exceptional quality attained by Hansa.

In 1990 Hans Christian operations shifted to Thailand in search of lower costs under the twin pressures of a recession and a Taiwanese luxury tax. In Thailand, Edwards set up a company with the lofty name of Dutch East Indes Trading Company (DEITC) to carry on Hans Christian production for its new owner. We believe one HC33 was constructed in 1992 before production properly recommenced in 1996 under Andersen Yachts Ltd, the boatyard that had essentially risen from the ashes of DEITC.

By 2003 when Andersen’s owner sought retirement, its production manager, a Kiwi by the name of Jack Hall migrated production to his new facilities in Pattaya operating under his own company, Pantawee Marine Ltd. Pantawee presently manufactures all boats from the current Hans Christian line and the Hans Christian 33 is available for purchase at the base price of $297k USD.

In all 155 boats have been produced with the last recorded build in 2009 which shipped to a European dealer.

Buyers Notes

HC33’s in general have been built well and have stood the test of time. Signs of osmotic blistering in some boats are common but none have been structural. The boats built by Hansa up to 1987 are of higher quality. One owner who has owned both for example has noted solid fiberglass decks in the earlier build and plywood coring, more susceptible to water damage, in the later. Additionally a change was made to through-bolted chainplates over the original monolithic joint embedded in epoxy. We believe the last Hansa built hull was HIN#131.

The HC33 has retained its popularity through the years and is readily sought after. Resale value remains high and in some ways the boat has verged on cult status.

Links, References and Further Reading

» Yachting Monthly, Jul 1988, a review of the Hans Christian 33 » BoatUS: Hans Christian 33 review by Jack Horner » Hans Christian Owners Association , owner information and discussions

Thanks goes to Craig Beckwith for providing the extensive history of Hans Christian Yachts, its boats and its people. Craig Beckwith joined Hans Christian Yachts in 1979, was involved with overseeing construction in Taiwan, and served as VP of Sales.

This listing is presented by SailboatListings.com . Visit their website for more information or to contact the seller.

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LPG water heater

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Anyone have experience with lpg water heaters, especially the "instant on", without pilot liight, vent free, like Excel 1.6 gpm?  

They do not meet the minimum safety standards used here in the US for marine use. If spotted by a reputable surveyor they may flag it as an unsafe install and your insurance company may force you to yank it out.  

We have an Excel and are very happy with it. We took out our 6 gal water heater about 8 months ago and replaced it with Excel. We installed a dedicated propane system for it. The Excel has the same safety features as our Force 10 stove.  

The quote below is one I find amusing and misleading. It is geared to make one think that if you have enough "ventilation" then installing this is perfectly fine on a boat, it is not if you choose to follow current US marine safety standards which most surveyors will do.. New builders CAN NOT install one and even DIY's, who technically can, may get flagged under an insurance survey and then need to yank it. The ABYC gets calls from irate boat owners who have been told by their insurance companies to get rid of them. They don't mention that ANYWHERE, that your insurance company may not like it, but are more than happy to take your hard earned money. I have a real concern for DIY installers who spend good hard earned money on these devices and who then may be forced to rip them out. I find that quite unfair to the consumer/DIY/end user. I don't like to see unsuspecting boaters mislead by manufacturers about the application. Why don't they quote a some relevant standards that are applicable to LPG appliances on boats such as the ABYC A-26 standard instead of an article on boat ventilation that has nothing to do with LPG appliances? I am sure buyers would want to read the most current set of marine safety standards we have for the marine market when making this important decision.. From Excel: "Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place. For More info on adequate ventilation practices for boats , RV's and mobile homes please link to: West Marine: Home Page In West Advisor use the Searchword: Ventilation" "Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place." They might want to add "uninsured, used sailboats or cabin cruisers", to be less misleading, because new builders can't install these and if you have a competent marine survey, and a marine insurance policy, they will very likely flag it in the recommendations section. No amount of "ventilation" changes the fact that it is a vent-free device which does not meet the ABYC safety standards. That is why I consider Excel misleading. They sell it for use in boats yet it does not meet the safety standards of largest body we have for setting safety standards in the US marine industry, the ABYC. From ABYC A-26 26.5.1 LPG and CNG fueled appliances shall not be installed in spaces containing internal combustion engines, their fuel tanks, or joints and fittings of their fuel systems. 26.5.3 Appliances shall meet the combustion requirements of ANSI Z 21.57 Recreational Vehicle Cooking Gas Appliances. (This standard also covers water heaters the Excel does not claim to meet ANSI Z-21) 26.5.4.1.1 venting of combustion products from the appliance. 26.5.8 The design and installation of LPG and CNG appliances and systems shall provide for the consumption of air and the venting of exhaust products. 26.5.9 Pilot lights and other automatic ignition devices shall be permitted only in appliances with room sealed combustion systems. (The Excel is automatic ignition but NOT room sealed combustion) 26.5.10 Unattended appliances shall incorporate a room sealed combustion system. (The Excel by definition is an "unattended appliance" and is vent-free, does not meet this either) 26.6.1 Exhaust products shall be ducted to the exterior of the vessel and designed to minimize water entry, back draft, and exhaust re-entry through any hull openings, ventilators, opening ports, hatches, windows. (The Excel is vent-free and does NOT duct to the exterior of the vessel) 26.6.2 Flues shall be routed and sized to ensure complete discharge of the products of combustion outside the craft, and shall not be obstructed by an accumulation of water. (The Excel does not even have a flue so can not completely discharge the products of combustion to outside the craft) 26.6.2.1 The flue system shall be continuous and sealed from the appliance to its terminus outside the craft. (Nope, does not meet this either) 26.6.2.2 Flue terminus shall not be positioned within 20 inches (500mm) of a refueling fitting or fuel tank vent. (Well, the good news is that it won't be within 20" the bad news is the flue terminus is non-existent), 27.6.2.4 The flue system shall be accessible for inspection. (very hard to meet this with no flue) Definitions: Unattended Appliance - appliances intended to function without frequent attention by an operator, and that may cycle on and off automatically, such as refrigerators, thermostatically controlled cabin heaters, and water heaters . Room Sealed Combustion System - a combustion system in which incoming air, the combustion chamber, and the outgoing products of combustion are sealed from the boat interior. PLEASE be careful with companies that make claims like "perfect for boats" when in fact the device does not even meet minimum US safety standards for use on boats. As always it is your boat and you can do what you want but I would strongly urge you to find a heater that at least meets the minimum safety standards. I would strongly advise that you call your own insurance company and explain what you want to do before installing it. Please don't leave out the fact that this device is vent-free and thus not ABYC complainant, and see the underwriting department has to say. If they say "sure go for it, your covered" then you're good to go. They are the ultimate arbiter of what you do on your boat not me or any other SN poster, not the ABYC, not the marine industry, not ANSI, just you and your own insurance company or surveyor who surveys to ABYC safety standards. If they are willing to take the risk then you're good to go. I still would not install one until it meet the applicable LPG standards for marine use. My opinion is that I dislike companies such as Excel who are intentionally misleading to consumers.  

BTW, if do talk to your insurance company, make sure you get it in writing that you're covered for it... and that the coverage clearly states that the hot water heater is an on-demand, LPG powered, ventless unit.  

How is this all any different than an LPG stove which is not vented? I know that the unit may not yet be ABYC certified, but I don't understand the safety issues. We have ours installed in our anchor locker with a heat shield on a dedicated LPG system.  

Unattended vs Attended  

Much like a stove then, because it can be left on just like a water heater can be left on. We operate ours in an attended mode. We have a dedicated solenoid that has to be turned on to supply gas to the device. We then turn it off when we are done using it, very much like we use our stove.  

My boat once upon a time was fitted with something like this-these days in the UK what you would be fitting was something flued and fed with air from outside -balance flue -similar to those fitted to Camping vans;trailers etc. Problem with a boat can be finding protected place for vent. I am lucky as my boat is fitted with a calorifier running off the engine cooling.Little more than a short run into harbour fills it full of water just short of boiling point-the insulated tank will quite easily provide a couple of hot showers;dish washing water and enough warm water the next morning for a wash. My boat is protected by a gas alarm and failsafe shut off in the gas storage locker.If it senses anything including paint;impact adesive it will not switch the gas on. Having once experienced butane ingite I am very careful-my Dad had changed a gas bottle on the touring caravan we owned and checked to make sure old bottle was empty-opened the valve brieflly-what no one realised was that the caravan was sat in a hollow into which the gas flowed. Later in evening he lit a Tilley lamp(pressure keroscene) and it ignited the gas.Flame flashed upwards leaving my Dad unscathed.I happened to be leaning over the stable type door luckily not too far as the flash explosion neatly removed some hair and my eyebrows and carved two third degree burns no wider than about half an inch across my wrists-still got the scars and the memory 50 years later!  

When we bought our boat it had one of these units installed. The surveyor did indeed flag it for removal. The PO claimed many years of trouble free service from it, but it just wasn't worth the risk of invalidating our insurance. It is sitting out in my garage right now. Maybe I should put it up for sale in the classified section. I'll be sure to mention that it is perfect for used, un-insurable boats! : )  

Anyone know if this on-demand tankless water heater is aproved for use on a sailboat? PrecisionTemp.com: For Recreational Vehicles and Boats I read the specs and they mention: Must be mounted in accordance with any applicable Coast Guard and ABYC recommendations. Nowhere can I see an official ABYC certification though... Moxieskipper  

They used to state that it could be ordered with a closed combustion chamber, which is needed to meet approval on a boat. I can't find it on their site now. Email them and ask them. As far as I know that unit, with a closed combustion chamber, is the only one that would meet approval. Your insurance company may still not like it though.  

Here is the statement from their site.  

Attachments

We installed a Precisiontemp hot water heater this year. I was uncomfortable w/ a propane heating source so I installed a propane detector system. So far it has been great. Endless hot water for showers and doing dishes and I don't have to worry about running the engine to make hot water. Jim  

Sounds like you're happy with it. You should have a propane detector if there is any propane on board for any appliance. I like the ones that give you remote control of the solenoid and automatically close the valve when propane is detected. I have installed a few detectors like this in the last few months and own one myself.  

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